Episode 98 - Forgiveness of Sins

[00:00:07] Speaker A: Hi and welcome to the unveiling. I'm Tim, one of the hosts, along with Ajay and Mark. We are three guys discussing the one true gospel. We hope you're encouraged by this episode. Let's dive right in. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. We would like to welcome you once again to the unveiling. We're so excited and glad to that you are here with us as we dive into a conversation that we are always prayerfully hoping that is led by the Spirit of God and that will reveal to us and to you the one true gospel. The glorious message of God's grace, which boiled down is simply Jesus Christ and him crucified. While we've been in a kind of a foundation series, we looking at the essentials of Christianity and kind of diving deeply into each one of those. And tonight we're going to take a deep dive into forgiveness of sin, which is really, I think Ajay said it today to me in our text thread, just how it's something all human beings can understand. There are many theological and doctrinal beliefs out there that take some maturity and years of walking with Christ before we can come to truly understand. And some people that have been walking with the Lord for decades are still diving into. But there are certain things that all mankind knows. And I believe our need for forgiveness is one of those, whether we're willing to admit it or not. I think in the quietness of our hearts when we go to bed tonight and we're laying in the dark, we realize that we don't measure up to our own standards, much less God's. But take heart, as Jesus said, for he has overcome the world, he has overcome sin. And so now I'm going to hand it off to my brother Ajay here and he's going to lead us into this subject. Take it away, Ajay. [00:02:05] Speaker C: Hi, Mark and Tim, it's good to see you as always. And I'm really excited today again to talk about the gospel and, and our Lord Jesus Christ. So we started this foundation series, right? We talked about salvation and salvation is not. For many, salvation is like, you know, going from earth to heaven. But, you know, when you really look into that, you know, we realize that salvation is going from death to life, right? You know, we were dead in trespasses and sins, and we go from death to life by receiving the life of our Lord Jesus Christ. And the Bible says if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things are passed away and all things have become new. You know, salvation is about us changing. It's not Us changing locations. And then in the second spot, we talked about redemption. You know, redemption is what it is needed. The price that our Lord Jesus Christ paid to take us out of darkness and death and bring us into life. And today we are going to talk about forgiveness. You know, forgiveness is also an aspect of salvation. Like Mark, you said many people understand forgiveness, but, you know, they may not really understand, hey, you know, you need life. You know, they may not understand because what do you mean? I am already alive. Right? But we are talking about the life of Christ, not the fallen, corrupt human life, but we are talking about Christ life. So the forgiveness of sins is, you know, we need forgiveness of sins. The reason, because we said salvation is going from death to life. But unless our sins are forgiven, God cannot give us life because the wages of sin is death. So again, you know, when we talk about forgiveness, I just want to define what forgiveness is in biblical terms before I pass it to you. Typically, when we say forgiveness, the way we think is, I offend you, and you're like, yeah. I go and say sorry and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't worry about it. We are buddies again. That's not the forgiveness. The biblical forgiveness is actually sin is taken away from you. In fact, the King James Version talks about remission of sins. Remission means when you have some money in your account, right? When you remit the money, it is taken away from the account. That's what it is when our sins are forgiven. God took the sins out from our account and he took it out and then put it in Jesus account, and then he paid the price for our sins. You know, that's how our sins are forgiven. So when our sins are removed from us, right? You know, we are no longer a sinner. And the consequence of sin is death. So because our sins are removed from us now, God is able to give us life. So before God can save us, our sins have to be forgiven. That's the reason for forgiveness of sins. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Ajay, you had one little thing I'd like to comment on. You started off by saying that salvation is not a change of location from earth to heaven, but it's us changing now. I know what you mean because of the context of your words, but just to make it really clear, I wanted to say that it's not about us changing, it's about us being changed. You see the difference in that? Would you agree with that? [00:05:42] Speaker C: Yes, totally. [00:05:43] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. I just don't want someone to misunderstand saying it's about us changing ourselves. You know, Working hard to change. [00:05:49] Speaker C: That is a great point, Mark. And thank you for pointing that out. Right. You know, the whole point of salvation is, you know, we cannot save ourselves and Jesus came and saved us. Right. You know, from our sins and from our condition. Corrupt condition. Jesus changes us. But. Yeah, that is right. You know, we don't change ourselves, but Jesus changes us. [00:06:12] Speaker A: You may want to cut this out, Mark, in editing, but, Ajay, you were talking about remit and remission. They're two different. Completely different subwords. The foundations of those words are completely different. Remission. Remittance is paying a debt, paying back something. Remission is the backing off of a condition. Like cancer goes into remission, not remittance. So I'm not sure that I agree with your use of that word. Although I understand when. When you followed it up with how you want, you know, tried to make it work. I thought that was beautiful. But I don't know if it's right. [00:06:53] Speaker B: We're sorry for picking on you, Ajay. I hit him and then you got him. [00:06:57] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. [00:06:58] Speaker B: No, I think it's a good. I think we can never be too clear. [00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:02] Speaker B: You know, on our definitions. [00:07:04] Speaker C: Yeah. The point is, you know, sending them away. Remission. Yeah, yeah. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Remission is. Yeah, yeah. It's beating back cancer. It would be beating back sin, I guess, if you want to put it that way. But what is ultimately happening here is what. Well, let me drop back one more step from where I jumped into the middle here. This whole idea that we have to ask God to forgive our sins. I don't know that I believe in that anymore. I believe that what it is, is when we say we believe in God, the death, burial, resurrection, and that the Holy Spirit's come to live with us, we don't have to ask God to forgive us. It's already done. Past, present, future, all done. The only time we need to talk about our sin is really for ourselves. We talk about how we talk about it and open up ourselves to it with God because it maintains our closeness with God. Because if we don't do that and we've got areas where we are feeling guilty and shame, then it hinders our relationship with God. We can't be close to someone to whom we feel guilt and shame. [00:08:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you are right, Tim. In fact, like I said, forgiveness is not. We are. Buddy, buddy. No hard feelings. That's not that. Forgiveness is sending away sins. And the KJV version says remission. That means sins are sent away. And that sending away of Sins happened when our Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross. And in fact, the gospel, the way it is preached, it's not about, you know, if you do something, your sins will be forgiven. The gospel is a proclamation of the forgiveness of sins. And the gospel message is in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, we Preach unto youo forgiveness of sins. That's because our sins are already forgiven and someone is going and proclaiming, hey, you know, your sins are forgiven. And yeah, you can receive your forgiveness by believing in the work that Lord Jesus Christ did. [00:09:19] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. That's an interesting point you made, Tim, and it's one you can really chew on, you know, But I believe it's true. Now one thing I'm going to weigh against that, that actually I think supports you is that in 1 John 1, the only time it ever talks in Scripture about confessing our sins is in First John 1. And we did a whole episode on this and it says that anyone who says they are without sin makes God out to be a liar. I believe this is my personal belief and I believe it's backed up by Scripture. And if you want want to look further in that, go back into our episodes, into our debunking series on confession of sin for believers. But the only time we confess our sin is at the point of salvation saying, I need a Savior. Because it says the law was given to make us conscious of sin. And if we're not conscious of it, we're not going to know we need a Savior. We, we don't confess individual sin. But I think why would we need a Savior if we don't believe we're sinners? And 1 John 1 did say, anyone who says they're without sin makes God out to be a liar. Let's discuss that. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Well, before we get to discussing making God out to be a liar, because I wouldn't do that, I hope. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Of course not. [00:10:45] Speaker A: I do want to say that this is the way I was raised. Mark, we have to ask forgiveness so that we can be free of sin, so that we can co join with God because God can't abide sin. So that's how I was raised. Right. But now I believe that Jesus on the cross died for all sin right then and there. God knows every sin I've ever committed. I don't. I will never remember all the sin I committed. So I can't beg forgiveness enough. So all I have to do is accept. I don't have to come to him and say, I sinned. I'm terrible. I need. He knows all That I just have to say thank you for your remission of my sin. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:26] Speaker A: That's how I feel and as a person. [00:11:27] Speaker B: But that's still an acknowledgment though. You're acknowledging that he is your Savior. Thank you for saving me. Thank you for the remission of sin. That's inherent. That's you acknowledging, yes, I need a Savior. That's for me, right? Oh, absolutely. But that's what I think. First John one is saying, if we hold onto it, saying, I don't sin, I'm a good guy, I give lots of money to help people. You know, if you're self righteous and think you can earn your way to heaven, then you're making God to be a liar because he says, I'm sorry. No, my son didn't die for nothing. You know, he died to take that sin away. [00:12:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. In fact, there are many people in the world, they believe like human beings are basically good and it's an environment that makes them bad. So many people don't realize that there is a problem with them. And that's why the law is given, right. If the law is not there, many people think they're really good. And there are even now many self righteous people. The reason why people don't accept the gospel is not because, you know, it's, it's not true or if they, or they don't, they doubt it is true. But the thing is they don't feel the need for it. They are like, you know, hey, I'm basically good. You know, I don't really need this salvation. They don't even understand when you talk about salvation. Right. You know, salvation from what? I am really good and I can work my way. I have had many friends when I talk about salvation, they are like, no, no, no, you know, I believe in self improvement. I don't believe all this. So that's where you know, the law comes into play. I think you both are right. Right. You know what Mark you are saying is the confession of sin is basically agreeing that, hey, I need a savior, I have a problem, I need a savior. And what Tim is saying is that confession itself is not getting my forgiveness. It has nothing to do with my forgiveness by acknowledging my sin. I'm just realizing that, you know, I need a savior. But the forgiveness is already accomplished for me. I'm not forgiven at the point of confession, at the point of confession, or at the point of, in fact, you know, confessing our Lord Jesus Christ, I receive my forgiveness, which is already accomplished. [00:13:59] Speaker B: That's A great way of putting it. It might sound like we're splitting hairs, but there's a lot in that that's powerful and that I think when we know and realize and own it really gives us a lot of power. So I think it is important because it's been perverted so many times that I think it's good sometimes just to really get down to the DNA of it, you know? And the Bible does say over and over again that Christ died once for all for the sins of the entire world, that forgiveness is already there. I think that was a good point the two of you made, that forgiveness doesn't happen at the moment of our confession of sin. It's already there for us. Our faith receives that gift. [00:14:43] Speaker A: It happened on the cross and. Yeah, exactly. But, Ajay, it's funny because you said some people say I don't recognize the need for a savior because I think I'm pretty good and I'm okay. I'm fine. Every time I think maybe somebody else is that way, hey, you're okay. You're pretty good. I hear my opa. My Opa was. I don't. I don't know. He died in the late 1900s and was born in probably the late 1800s. But I always hear him in the back of my head with his thick, heavy German accent going, ah, people is no darn good. Nobody's good, man. None of us. It's a pass fail system. If you make one mistake, you blow at one time, it's over for you. That's why you need to save your life. [00:15:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Again, you know, in other religions, right, except for Christianity, they agree that they have some problems. But I think they believe that if I do enough good works that outweigh my bad works. Like your Russian, whatever. That thing. [00:15:44] Speaker A: The cantor. [00:15:44] Speaker C: Yes, cantor, yeah. That is a common belief across all religions except Christianity. If I do enough good works to outweigh my bad works, you know, somehow I will make it to heaven. You know, those kind of people also, they don't really understand the need for a savior, [00:16:06] Speaker B: I think. I don't want to oversimplify that, though, because I think that's a very prevalent situation. Why people don't come to Christ because they think they're good enough, that they don't need a savior. But I think people also don't come because they think it's going to spoil their fun. They don't want to give up partying or this or that. And that's a big one, too. And there are many. And I'm sure there are people out there who just really don't believe in the existence of God, which I don't know how that happens. But, you know, I think there are many reasons, but that definitely is a big one. And that's why there, I think so many of the world religions are that it's about you trying to earn your own goodness and self righteousness. But one thing that just occurred to me is if you look at the history of mankind, we're about improvement. We've improved the way we travel, we've improved the houses we build, we've improved our ability to get food. There's one thing as much as we've improved that if you look at history, we haven't improved. We're not more loving, we're not less violent. The 20th century was the most bloody violent century in history as far as people being killed and murdered. So we're not improving. The state of mankind is the same and that's why we will always need a savior. [00:17:31] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I want to step back a little bit and touch on that mark. Like, you know, some people don't believe in God and some people, you know. Yeah, I think that is a point. Like, you know, I was listening a message a long time back and it is tied directly to our topic today. You know, many people think of it as right, you know, because of their sins, they are under condemnation, they are under guilt and they know that punishment is waiting for them because everybody in their conscious knows, you know, if you sin, you have to pay for it. And many people, it's not that they don't believe in God, they don't want to believe in God because they think that one day I have to face the judgment, you know, one day I have to pay for my sins. So they are like, they would like, you know, I would rather not have God exist so that, you know, I don't have to be judged. But the thing is, right, you know, when they understand the gospel, that thing will change, right? Because your judgment is put on our Lord Jesus Christ. You really don't have to be judged if you only understand what Christ did for you. You know, that's where also I think gospel, preaching the gospel to those people like, you know, who deliberately don't want to believe in God. I think it will make a big difference. I want to also address the people who want to party. You're saying even those people, right? Most of them, I think at the beginning they are like, you know, they have a conscience and they're like, they want to Live a good life. But at some point they are like, they give up, right? They try, try and try and they can't make themselves better. And they are like, well, you know, I can't make myself better. I'm going to be punished anyways for my sins. I might as well go and party even for them also, right? If they understand that, you know, there is forgiveness of sins for you in the name of Lord Jesus Christ. Both of them, I believe, will change their perspective. [00:19:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:30] Speaker B: And one more that just occurred to me. I want to speak directly to these people. There are people out there that believe in God but believe that they are too bad, they're too far off, that they've committed the unpardonable sin. They live with incredible guilt and shame. And a lot of these people commit suicide. They just feel like God couldn't love me. I'm too filthy. But I just want to remind you that Jesus Christ came from the highest heights down into the deepest depths. God gave us his best while we were at our worst. So while we were all in the midst of our deepest, darkest sin, whether that's in quantity or just in lack of quality, whatever you want to say, the sin was so bad or the amount of sin is so bad, that's where Christ went right into the center of. And Tim loves to use the. I'll let you. You like to talk about the Apostle Paul and I'm going to let you talk about that now. If we think we're too bad for salvation. [00:20:33] Speaker A: Well, I'd be happy to say that again. But let me ask this question first. What sin can I commit that God cannot pardon? That God didn't already buy my forgiveness for? What can I do? Paul persecuted Christians. He made it his life's work to go around and kill Christians. Moses killed an Egyptian taskmaster. Everybody in the Old Testament had issues in Some of the guys in the New Testament had issues. God accepts you all. Once you've got the faith that you need to let him into your life, that you can say to yourself and believe it. The Lord Jesus Christ died for me, was buried and was resurrected for my name. I'm clean. I'm cleansed. I love him and the Spirit lives in my heart. [00:21:28] Speaker B: You cannot out sin the love of God or the power of the cross. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Well, you use the term unpardonable sin. What is. What is an unpardonable sin? [00:21:40] Speaker B: I would say the only one is rejecting Christ. [00:21:44] Speaker A: I pretty. Yeah, it's the only thing you can do that will cause him not to. For you. Their forgiveness is bought and paid for. It's right there. And if you deny it, that's the only thing you can do to grieve God and to not receive that forgiveness, then. [00:21:59] Speaker C: Yeah, Yep. [00:22:01] Speaker A: I thought that was important to bring up. Sorry, Ajay. [00:22:03] Speaker B: It is very important. [00:22:04] Speaker C: It is, it is, yeah. That is the unpardonable sin, rejection of the forgiveness. Right. You know, if you reject forgiveness, you remain unforgiven. So you, Lord Jesus Christ, you know, he did everything to forgive your sins and give you eternal life, but you reject it. So you remain in. In your current state. Right. Without accepting what Jesus did for you. Yeah. So, you know, I want to touch upon forgiveness again in the sense. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Well, that is the episode title. Please feel free. [00:22:42] Speaker B: What a coincidence, Ajay. [00:22:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So what I mean by that is like we are talking about, right? You know, when it comes to unbelievers, the whole humanity, they know they have sinned, right? You know, they have a conscience and there are people who have the written laws, like every religion has written laws. It's not just Jews. If you go to Hinduism, if you go to Muslims, everybody have their written laws. You know, don't do this, don't do that. They have a sense of good and evil. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is inhumanity. And even if you don't have any written laws, the law is written on our conscience. So when we do wrong, we know that. In fact, I heard that, you know, most people are in mental hospitals is because of guilt, they have done something bad in their life. It could be small or big, but in their mind it is big. Right? You know, they have committed something, they are weighed down by guilt and they don't know how to get out of that guilt. So they end up in mental asylum. You know, they try all kinds of things, but they know that could not cleanse what they did. Because sometimes people end up doing really, really bad things. And they think no matter what they do, even if they give up their life, that is not enough for them. So they go in this mode and then they actually end up becoming mentally ill. So the point I'm making is that everybody in the world understands that they are guilty and they are under punishment, they are under condemnation and they need forgiveness of sins. So that's why, you know, when the gospel is preached specifically, it is reached as it is preached as forgiveness of sins. You know, when we hear the gospel, it's not necessarily, you know, we don't. Even though it is true, if we go and preach them, hey, you know, receive Life in the name of Lord Jesus Christ. They really don't understand. You know, that's why I believe the gospel is preached in terms of forgiveness of sins. And when Peter preached the gospel in Cornelius House, that is the first time gospel was preached to Gentiles. And when Paul preached the gospel in Antioch, there also, you know, there were a lot of Gentiles and Jews. It's a combination of both Jews and Gentiles. This is how the gospel is preached. In Acts 10:43, you know, the gospel, the pattern that the apostles preached is they first talked about the death, burial, and resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ. He died according to the prophecy, and he was buried according to the Scriptures, and he rose again according to the Scriptures, and then towards the end, they preached this. All the prophets testify about him, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. So the gospel preaching is basically preaching of forgiveness of sins in the name of Lord Jesus Christ. And Acts 13:38,39. This is the gospel that Paul preached. Be it known unto you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man he is preached unto you forgiveness of sins. And by him all that believe are justified from all things from which he could not be justified by the law of Moses. So when gospel is preached, it is preached as forgiveness of sins based on the work of redemption that Lord Jesus Christ did. You know, the Bible says, without the shedding of the blood, there is no forgiveness. And the Lord Jesus said in Matthew 26:28, this is the blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. So that's, you know, I wanted to point that out because, you know, everyone understands what forgiveness of sins is. And the gospel is simply like, Tim, you're saying, right? Declaration of forgiveness of sins. I think the message is, hey, you know, God is not angry at you. God is not holding your sins against you. And we are declaring you the forgiveness of sins in the name of Lord Jesus Christ. [00:27:01] Speaker B: Awesome. That is good news, isn't it? [00:27:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:07] Speaker A: You know, this whole forgiveness thing, it's not about. It's a change in our identity. It's not a change in our status. In other words, we don't suddenly go from condemned to saved. We do, but that's not. That's a status change. Right. What he does is he changes our status. We're not sinners who were forgiven. We're now saints. And we don't need forgiveness because we've been forgiven. It's a huge. It's a huge change. But we keep trying to Boil it down to smaller changes so we can kind of figure out how to accept it or work or work towards it ourselves. [00:27:45] Speaker B: And as we talked about last week, we also go from being slaves to being sons and daughters, children of God and heirs of God. That's a giant change, too. So, Tim, you were just talking about a moment ago, what's the impartable sin? And also what Ajay was just talking about, this scripture came to mind. This is probably the most famous scripture of the Bible that the world knows, and that's John 3:16. If you watch NFL football, you've seen the guy with the rainbow wig in the first row holding up the giant sign that says John 3:16. But I want to read John 3:16, 18, because I think 17 and 18 need a new press agent because they're as astounding as 16 is. Let me read them together. And I think this is highly appropriate and apropos to what the two of you were just talking about. It says, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Okay, that's that famous one there. And like, I think it was you, Tim, who just said, God's not angry at you. God loves you so much he gave his one and only son. Listen to what 17 says here. It says, for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. And this is what we were talking about, about the unpardonable sin. It says, whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only son. So the only issue, the only thing that really matters anymore isn't how much you've sinned, how little you've sinned, sinned, how many good works you've done. The only thing that matters is if you put your faith in Jesus. He's like that. The pinnacle, he's the fulcrum that everything else tips one way or the other on. And that's how you enter, is by Christ. He loves you. And another favorite one, I'm going to finish up and give it back to you guys that I Love is Romans 8. It's. I don't know the number. I think it's 32. But it says that he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? I just love the depth of love that God showed at the cross by giving up Jesus. By our great God and Savior going to the cross, not just the cross. He was whipped and flogged and spit on and mocked and insulted. A crown of thorns pushed into his head. He just went through everything for us. And what a beautiful picture of the love God has for every one of you listening to us out there right now. No matter what you've done, no matter what you haven't done. [00:30:47] Speaker C: Amen. Amen. Tim, do you want to go? [00:30:50] Speaker A: Sorry, no. I was yelling at the dog. [00:30:53] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. Hey, Mark, I wanted to touch upon the scripture that you brought up, right? I think it's important to touch on that. You know, you focused on the fact that, you know, if you don't believe in Jesus, that is the only condemnation. But I also wanted to touch upon he that believes is not condemned, right? He that does not believe is condemned already. Stands condemned already. You know, like I have had this conversation before as well. So I wanted to clarify that, you know, some people think of Christianity as. Or the gospel as, right? Oh, everybody is having a good life. And then this Jesus guy shows up and says, if you believe, you will go to heaven. If you don't believe, I'll send you to hell. You know, as if they are neutral. And, you know, it's like as if, you know, I'm having a good life. You know, this guy comes and he disturbing me and he's putting some arbitrary condition of believing in him. That's how they think. But that's not it, right? You know, everybody is condemned already. You know, that's very important. You know, it's not like we are neutral and then believing in Jesus, they think that, you know, you're neutral. And, you know, if you believe in Jesus, okay, you're safe. If you don't believe in Jesus, Jesus is going to send you to hell. That's not the case. We all are condemned already. We all are in a sinking ship. And Jesus came as a lifeboat, right? Or he came as a helicopter, you know, or he's sending ropes for people to be saved. You know, that's the situation. So if you don't accept the salvation, you are rejecting the lifeboat. You are already condemned. You are already going to hell and you are already dead. You are already under the reign of sin and death. You know, right now in this world, we still see the full manifestation of death. We are under. I think it is by God's grace, as long as we are on this earth, we have a chance to receive salvation and then escape what Adam brought upon us. Right. But if we reject Christ, you know, death will show itself in its full glory, in fact, on the day of judgment. Right. It's not so much, you know, God is going to judge you and punish you. It's like, you know, our death we are under is all it shows up in its full glory. That's why Bible calls casting out in casting in hell is in the lake of fire. It's called second death. Because what happens is lake of fire is not necessarily literal fire, but it's complete absence of God. You know, when you take away God completely from our life, all that remains is death, absolute death. And that is a lake of fire. So I just wanted to point that. [00:33:43] Speaker B: And when you think about it, rj, even in this world here, where millions upon millions do not believe in Christ, imagine what this world would be like if God's presence and influence were completely taken away immediately. This would be hell, absolute hell. Yes, yes, but that's a great point you made there. That goes right along with 18 there, that it's not Jesus coming to spoil our fun. Yeah, you know, but the way you just explained it, Ajay, is the way that the Apostle Paul preached the gospel a lot. Almost like a bad news, good news things. He would start by saying, all right, here's the situation. This is what we have. We are all dead in sin. And he's not pointing a finger at any one person because Christ didn't come to condemn anybody. He didn't come to point a finger at you and say, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong. And the Apostle Paul never preached the gospel that way either. He said, here's the state, no one is righteous, not one for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So that's why I personally really get nauseous when I hear people ranting and railing and condemning people. Like, you know, you hear some of these churches when a hurricane hits or something, oh, it's God punishing their sin. No, those people were already condemned, already dead. God is sending his Spirit to draw them to Christ to save them that condemnation. That's why I love this. 17. God didn't send his Son to condemn the world, but to save them. So why do people who belong to him feel the need to condemn the world? If the Christ himself wouldn't condemn the world, why are we condemning? Yes, we can be honest and say, look, we all have a problem. Look around, you can see the fruits of this problem in the world. But here's the answer that's the context that the gospel, the good news has been poured into. [00:35:50] Speaker C: Yeah. If a hurricane is God punishing our sinners, then the whole earth should be wiped out because everybody is a sinner. There's nobody who is righteous. [00:36:03] Speaker A: I keep yelling at my TV when some of these, you know, supposed Christian leaders come on saying stuff like, you know, the destruction of. Of New Orleans was God's will to show us that he is not happy with the way they live. And whether I keep yelling, shut up. You're making the rest of us look bad. This is not how God works anymore. Do you remember the rainbow or. No. I mean, this is just. This is just. We broke the earth. We being humanity, broke the earth when the Garden of Eden, when we didn't follow the one rule we were given and we got thrown out. Now we live in a world with thorns and weather and stuff like that. And sometimes a hurricane is just a hurricane. You can't pin every little thing that happens on God, especially nothing bad, because God is the giver of good and perfect gifts. Hurricane doesn't sound like a good or perfect gift to me. [00:36:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Plus Jesus already took the punishment for all that sin, right? [00:36:58] Speaker C: Yeah. If God was going to wipe out sinners, the easiest thing would have been to destroy Adam and Eve the moment they sinned. Right. Instead of destroying them, he actually gave them coverings and he actually killed a goat or killed a lamb and then made covering, which was immediately a picture of the lamb, the Lamb of God that was going to be sacrificed for us. So if you think about it, right, you know, if sin is going to destroy people, first of all, everyone should be destroyed. And the more easy thing would have been, is to just kill Adam and Eve and restart with humanity. Right. God would have done that easily. [00:37:38] Speaker A: Sure. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Ephesians 1 tells us that God already chose to see us holy and blameless in his sight before the creation of the world. It wasn't people, I think get the. Think of God as a chess player reacting to our moves, you know, that he's still going to win the game and come about to the end he wants. Okay, Adam had a chance, he screwed up. So God made another move to put him back on track. And then Israel screwed up the golden calf and everything, they went into slavery. And then God sent Moses and God gave the law and then mankind couldn't keep the law, so he sent Jesus. No, Christ from before the beginning of the world. It's always been him. Everything was created by him, through him, for Him. He's the one who Sustains it. It's all about him. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, we constantly say that Jesus was never plan B. [00:38:48] Speaker C: Yeah, that was [00:38:49] Speaker A: the plan from the beginning. [00:38:51] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Yeah, Jesus plan from the beginning was Jesus. And from the beginning, you know, God wanted us to be united with Christ and be his sons and daughters. So Adam was more like, you know, something, what do we say? He messed up, like, and then God has to repair it. But, you know, from the beginning, Jesus was the plan of God. So, Tim, I want to quickly touch upon what you said before, right? You know, with forgiveness, you know, it's not just forgiveness. It's a change of state. The reason for that is, you know, we don't just receive forgiveness. You know, if we are corrupt and messed up, and then you forgive a corrupt and messed up person, you know, he's still corrupt and messed up. So what the beauty of the gospel is, the gospel is preached as a forgiveness of sins, but when someone believes and receives the forgiveness of sins, they immediately receive Holy Spirit as a gift. In Acts, chapter 10, you know what I read before the Scripture in Acts, chapter 10, I think it's verse. Where was that? Just give me one second. Yeah. In verse 40, chapter 10, 43 says, all the prophets testify about him, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. And then 44 says, While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon those who heard the word. Think of it like, you know, they didn't even say anything in their. With their mouth. They didn't even pray the sinner's prayer. They did not do what Lazarus, that Zacchaeus did, right? Oh, I'll give half of my property to all the people that I took from none of those things. While Peter was still speaking these words, Holy Spirit fell on them, fell upon all those who heard the word. So they heard the word and they believed it. You know, in another place it says, you know, after believing, the Holy Spirit came and cleansed their hearts. But the point is, when you believe the gospel, when you receive the forgiveness of sins in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, the moment you believe in your heart that Jesus died and rose again for you, which is the gospel, the Holy Spirit comes and makes us a new creation. You know, the only difference, you know, it's many people think, you know, Christianity is about good behavior. The difference between unbeliever and a believer is not behavior. It's the Holy Spirit. We have the Holy Spirit and unbeliever doesn't have it. And the Holy Spirit comes and he joins us. With Christ, and then he gives us a new heart, a new nature, and he makes us a new creation. You know, that's why. Right. You know, after we are being made a new creation, our old nature changes. Right. You know, we don't have. We are delivered from sin and we don't have to sin. Right. You know, we become from sin to righteousness. You know, righteousness is not just standing. You know, God first declares us righteous and he gives us the Holy Spirit and makes us righteous. You know, our spirit and our heart are actually righteous. You know, we really want to live a righteous life. You know, the only reason Christians fall and sin because, you know, we still have this old body and old memories and old belief systems and old tendencies. That's why we sin. But within us, the new man is created after Christ Jesus. So we are already righteous. Within our spirit is already righteous. [00:42:53] Speaker B: Well, I wanted to bring up, since we're talking about the forgiveness of sin, I wanted to bring up something that we've talked about a number of times. But I don't think we can ever talk on it too much because it's become somewhat of a Christian mantra in the church. Preachers and pastors, and you hear believers everywhere of all types saying, for the forgiveness of sin, you must repent of your sin for forgiveness. And by that they mean you need to turn from your sin. You need to stop sinning and come to Christ. And they've made it a condition of the gospel. Now, I gotta tell you, you would think as much as you hear it on tv, preachers, in churches, in small groups, wherever, on the radio, ministry programs, you would think that you could open the Bible and find 20, 30, 40 passages that tell you to repent of your sin. Because they say that is how you get salvation. That's how you get the forgiveness of sins. But I'll tell you right now, we live in a wonderful age where we have the Bible on computer with a concordance, you can look up every single word in that Bible at a time, push of a button, and nowhere, not even once in the Bible does it say, repent of your sin for forgiveness. But what it does say over and over and over again is repent for the forgiveness of sin, not repent of sin for forgiveness. That would be a condition. And if we were able to do that, we wouldn't need a savior because we could just clean up our own lives. And now we're great. And it's become such a just. Everybody just takes it for being the truth, like it's part of the Gospel, that it must be in the Bible over and over again. Repent of your sin for forgiveness. I bet I've heard that a thousand times in my life in one church or another, in one message or another, on the radio, on tv. It's. There's no truth behind it. There's no truth behind it. [00:44:59] Speaker A: Walk down the street and see the guy with the big sign repent. The end is near. You know, it's everywhere. But I'll tell you, this modern church, I believe, really, really messed with the definition of repent. I really believe the church thinks repentance means feeling bad about what you've done, confessing, meaning God, you know, begging forgiveness from God so that maybe he'll forgive you. It's just wrong. It's just all wrong. Repentance is literally none of that. [00:45:29] Speaker B: Repent of your dead works, it says in Hebrews 6. But let me give everybody once again the actual definition of the word repent. It's the Greek word metanoia. It's defined as profound fundamental transformation of one's mind, heart or worldview. And the word meta means change and noia means think. So you change your thinking now, does that change thinking now of realizing Christ as your Savior, putting your faith in Him. Now, does that make changes in your life? That's why at the beginning, when Ajay said we don't change location, it's about us changing, I said, no, it's actually about us being changed. We are changed by metanoia as we put our faith in Christ. And now we have a whole new heart. We're a new creation. We are the righteousness of God. We're the children of God. And more than children, we're his heirs. And that produces things in our life that's going to be the power of Christ working in us. And without effortlessly our effort anyway, we'll see sin start to melt away as we walk through this life. You're never going to be perfect. You're still going to make mistakes. But those mistakes have already been paid for on the cross once for all. [00:46:48] Speaker C: I want to touch on one more thing before we wrap up today. I think, Tim, you will like this one, and I think it's important. So how many of our sins are forgiven when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? [00:47:03] Speaker A: All of them. [00:47:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, there is some theologists, there are many people, right? You know, they think their sins are forgiven up to the point of salvation, right? Only your past sins are forgiven. And many people have difficulty believing that all our sins are forgiven. Right? Past Present and future. Of course, in reality, you know, future sins are not here. But the point is they think, you know, up to the point of my salvation, when I confess Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior, until that time my sins are forgiven. And then they start this one. Many Christians, right, You know, like the main thing is confession. Like, you know, when you sin after you're a believer, every night, you know, you have to confess all the sins and then your sins will be forgiven. In fact, I have heard that this whole idea of, you know, taking an account of your sins every day, and if you go to sleep without any unforgiven sins, you know, you might go to hell because you have some unforgiven sins. So I think it is important that we clarify that as well, right? When Lord Jesus Christ, it's a very simple thing, right? Did Lord Jesus Christ die for your sins up till your point of salvation, or did he die for all your sins, right? So and if he didn't die for your sins after your salvation, and how will they be forgiven, right? Because the Bible says without the shedding of the blood, there is no forgiveness. So the Bible is clear. You know, in Colossians it says, you know, having forgiven all our sins, Lord Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. I'm paraphrasing it. But the point is, all our sins, all our sins are forgiven past, present and future, even before we ever were born. Because Lord Jesus Christ died before anyone on this planet is alive right? Now, of course, you know, the Bible says the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the earth, but the actual dying happened in 2000, 2000 AD or 0 AD 2000 years back. But you know, when Lord Jesus Christ died, right, you know, he paid backwards for all the people that lived before him in the Old Testament. He paid for their sins and then he also paid forward, like he paid for all the sins of all humanity that are ever going to live on this planet until Christ returns. He paid for the sins of all humanity for all time with one sacrifice. So like Tim, you said gospel is a proclamation of forgiveness of sins. It's not that, you know, our sins are forgiven when we do something, or our sins are forgiven when we believe. When we believe, we receive the forgiveness of sins, but our sins are already forgiven. I think it's important for especially believers to know this because so many people are in bondage still trying to get their sins forgiven every day. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Well, no offense to our Catholic friends, but I don't think the Catholic faith has done us any favors when it comes to talking about confession and forgiveness of sins. When you have to go into a booth and tell somebody everything you've done bad and be assigned penance for those sins to be forgiven. That's the. That's the old way of thinking. I have to go in and go, oh, I did this. I feel bad. Okay, you can be forgiven. Do X number of Hail Marys, the stations of the cross, this, that, and the other. It's already done, guys. You don't have to go in. The only time you can confess your sins one to another, which is, I believe a Jamesism. Right, is yes, I agree with that. Because I need help sometimes getting through over or around something. If I've done something bad that I'm feeling and I don't feel like I can have the union with Christ that I should have because I'm ashamed or I'm guilty or whatnot, which are things I shouldn't be feeling, they can help me get over that and come up beside me and support me and bring me through this to the other side, back in to the grace and love and power of the Lord Jesus Christ. [00:51:18] Speaker B: Great point, Tim. And that's different because you're not confessing for the forgiveness of sin from God. It's got a whole different reason for doing it. One, it could mean because you've sinned against them and you're coming to say, hey, I messed you up and did you bad. I'm sorry, you know, or it could be, like you said, to receive some strengthening from a brother or sister with something you're dealing with, but it's not so that you're forgiven by God. [00:51:45] Speaker A: Amen. You had something to add, Ajay? I can see it. It's on your face. [00:51:50] Speaker C: No, no, no. I think I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. [00:51:53] Speaker B: All right, guys. Well, we had a great conversation. Would you like to each have a little quick summary? [00:51:59] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:51:59] Speaker A: I think I want to end on the Catholic piece I did there. Again, no offense to our Catholic brothers and friends and sisters and all, but, you know, we don't need to go through self flagellation. We don't have to beat ourselves up. We don't have to prove that we're sorry. We just have to say, lord, you died for the sins that I did and the sins I may do in the future, thank you for that. You come into agreement with what has already happened and you move forward. And the only time I believe you need to confess in the form of I need help is when you need help, when you need to get through something like your feelings or whatnot. It's all about getting you back to the point where your intimacy with God is revolving set re certain, you know. [00:52:49] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to talk to everyone who is listening to us or who will ever listen to us, no matter, you know, what sin you committed, for how long you did it and when you did it, like how much guilty you are feeling. And if you are thinking that there is the only way out is punishment and you, you think, you know, you can't forgive yourself and the. And in fact, you are probably feeling that the right thing for you is to be punished. But you know, there is good news. No matter what it is, there is forgiveness. Our Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again for your sins. And today we declare to you in the name of Lord Jesus Christ that your sins are forgiven. All you need to do is believe that Christ died and rose again for you and receive the forgiveness of sins and you will be made a new creature. [00:53:43] Speaker A: Amen. [00:53:44] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. And I am going to finish just by saying. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him. And for him he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness to dwell in him and through him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross. And I would just add for you to our listeners. So we just implore you, we plead, as the Apostle Paul would say, come to Christ and just. You will never regret it. Believe me, he has all the supremacy. All right, everybody, we just want to say thank you for being here and participating with us. Hopefully you can chew on some of the stuff we said. And as always, we always try to encourage people to check the things we say in scripture. And if you find something that we've said wrong, we're very open to you sharing with us in the comments section of our podcast. So we love you all and we will see you again the next time [00:55:37] Speaker A: thanks for listening today. We hope you were encouraged and uplifted. If so, we encourage you to subscribe and share our podcast with your friends and family. You can listen and subscribe on most popular podcast apps. Well, that's it for us today. As always, God bless and we will talk to you the next time. [00:55:58] Speaker B: All my days, Lord, I will delight in you. All days of my life. You I will delight you I will.