Episode 97 - Redemption

[00:00:07] Speaker A: Hi and welcome to the unveiling. I'm Tim, one of the hosts, along with Ajay and Mark. We are three guys discussing the one true gospel. We hope you're encouraged by this episode. Let's dive right in. Well, hello again, everybody. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening. We're glad you're here because I think we got some special things to tell you about because we believe that Jesus Christ is the most important thing to humanity that ever was or ever will be. And Jesus is grace, and grace is our topic. So you're going to hear a lot about Jesus as we go. First, guys, how you doing? Everybody good? [00:00:44] Speaker B: We're good. How about you, Ajay? [00:00:46] Speaker C: Pretty good. Pretty good. Nice to see you guys. [00:00:49] Speaker B: It's good to be good. [00:00:50] Speaker A: It's good to be good. Frank Burns used to say that. Anyway, anyway, we've been, we've been talking about salvation for, I don't know, three weeks now. And I think we've. Well, yeah, I don't know we can ever cover every topic that we touch completely top to bottom. I think we've done a pretty good job with it. So today we're going to shift gears. We're going to start talking about the next topic on our list of foundations that we're going to be going through, and that one today is redemption. And if you guys will bear with me for maybe two, two and a half minutes, I've got a couple things I'd like to talk about before we get started as it, as it pertains to redemption. Because I was growing, I grew up in the church, the old church, the 60s, 70s, 80s church, the performance church, the, you know, the church says, you got, you know, this, this may be fine, but now you got to do this, that, and the other. So historically, I think most Christians have understood redemption primarily in the terms of Jesus paying the price for sin so that sinners could be forgiven and ultimately saved. It was the redemption was basically a get out of hell free card. And the focus was often centered on guilt, punishment, legal standing before God, escaping hell, and living under a continuing sense of moral obligation afterwards. That's an important part. God saved you. His grace saved you, but now what are you going to do for him? Kind of seemed to be what they were teaching us a lot. In many traditions, redemption was viewed mainly as a legal transaction that secured salvation, while the believer still largely remained a sinner struggling under obligation as a result. You know, how many times have we heard that we're sinners saved by grace? Well, no, we were sinners. We were saved by grace. Now we're saints. That's another. That's another podcast, guys. Another. So as a result, Christians often carried strong emphasis on repentance, confession, obedience, discipline, perseverance, and maintain them maintaining their fellowship with God. How many times did we hear, you know, God can't, God's not going to favor you or bless you or even look at you if you sin or you do this or you do that. And that was all on us. That was a terrible way to live. But to be fair, not all traditional theology was legalistic. But many Christians redemption was experienced primarily through the lens of Jesus paid my debts so I can hopefully make it to heaven. And while grace oriented believers would agree that this is true to some extent, many would also argue that it's incomplete. I think we should all argue that that's incomplete. The New Covenant perspective sees redemption as something much larger and deeper than simple debt repayment. It teaches that Christ has not only paid for sins, but also brought the old Adamic relationship to an end, fulfilled the law, crucified the old self, and established an entirely new covenant identity with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in us. In that understanding, redemption is not merely about escaping punishment someday. It's about being fundamentally transformed and brought into union with Christ and living from a completely new identity before God. I think I made it under two minutes. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Well, before IJ kicks in, let me just. I wanted to discuss a quick little term you used and that's grace oriented Christianity, I think, or something that affect. [00:04:44] Speaker A: You said new covenant perspective. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah. What I wanted to say though, grace oriented Christianity isn't just one more flavor, one more theology. Grace is the gospel. It is true historic Christianity. Apostle Paul said that Jesus Christ and him crucified is the message of God's grace. So it's not like just one more different little flavor. This is true Christianity. If you don't believe me, get into your, into your Bible because cover to cover, it tells us that. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Well, let me give you the quote specifically. It's still what you said is still relevant. But it was. And while grace oriented believers would agree, I wasn't talking about Christian flavor of Christianity. I was just talking about Christians who like us, are in grace and understand how that affects their lives. So I'm done talking for a while. I'm sorry. [00:05:42] Speaker B: So I agree. It doesn't really change what I said. Grace oriented believers, all believers are grace oriented. There is no other way to be saved except by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. That's my point because there can be divisiveness, you know, I mean, I had a pastor who used to say when he first understood the gospel and, and started preaching grace, so many people, so many people from his seminary pastors, he used to be under, came up and would warn him, be careful. Now, grace is good, but you don't want too much of that, you know, And I just want to make sure everybody understands everybody. Every believer is saved by grace. We're not just saved by it. In Galatians 1, Paul says, we live in the grace of Christ. It's for our salvation, it's for our living, and it's for our future living in the presence of Christ face to face. [00:06:42] Speaker C: Amen. Amen. Yeah, you know, Tim, I'm glad you started with that. Right. You know, people hear about redemption, but they are still feeling guilty because of incomplete and I would also say incorrect understanding of redemption. In fact, you know, redemption is the one that actually, if they understood correctly, that will cause them to live guilt free. Romans 3, 23, 24. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. So what it's saying is justification. We are justified freely through the redemption. In other words, without the redemption. Right. Justification is not possible. And by definition, justification means you are set free from your sin. Right. You are not held accountable for your sin or the sin is removed. Sin is not imputed to you, but rather righteousness is imputed to us. And the reason for that is the redemption. The redemption is the basis of justification. And we can go a little bit into what redemption is, how it is accomplished. But before that, you know, I will pass it back to you guys for any comments. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Let me ask you a question, Ajay, on redemption. So in the classic kind of definition, worldly definition of redemption, it usually involves money, someone paying a price. Correct. To free somebody else from a slavery or from a bondage or being in prison or whatever it might be. And I love this scripture right here, First Peter 1:18 says. Well, let me preface it by saying I used to debate a lot on social media with believers and with pastors, and once I used the terminology that Jesus paid for our sin, that he purchased our redemption. And somebody had a problem with that. Oh, you're making it sound paid. And Scripture is full of that type of terminology. We have famous hymns, Jesus paid it all to him I owe. But for some reason she had trouble with the word paid. I never understood that. And I, I quoted her scriptures that show this is biblical Terminology. But this really clears it up here because it's obviously we're not talking about. We haven't been redeemed by a money purchase first. Peter says 1:18 says, for you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redee from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake through him you believe in God who raised him from the dead and glorify him. And so your faith and hope are in God. Just love that, that the price, it was a price that was paid. [00:10:00] Speaker C: It was. It was. Yeah. [00:10:01] Speaker B: And the most costly price ever paid for anything. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Well, we have to remember, most people who aren't Christians, the only real exposure they've had to the word redemption is around things like coupons, Right? [00:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:18] Speaker A: You're testing these things. Yeah, right, sure. You take these things in and they're worth something. Right? So they're worth something specific. So Jesus was our redeemer, he was our redemption. So when he paid the price, he was taking over. But the problem is, I think the definition of how much Jesus redeemed, right, we see a lot of people who say, yeah, I was saved by grace, I was redeemed by the cross. My sins were forgiven. Now I gotta buckle up and put my shoulder to the wheel and my nose to the grind. So there's a lot of wheels and grinding in. In this. [00:10:55] Speaker B: But I'm saying hamster wheel. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah, right, hamster. There's a lot of performance now you got to do. But no, Jesus paid the price for everything, for all of it. Yesterday's sins, today's sins, tomorrow's sins. He's with us constantly. He knew who we were before we were even born. So he knew what we were going to be like and what we were going to do. No one's too far reached. God paid for everyone, for everything. All we got to do is put that. Turn that coupon in, so to speak, by saying, I believe in Jesus and his death and resurrection for my sins. That's it. [00:11:28] Speaker B: That was a great point, Tim. And the one line in the scripture I just read is pointing to exactly what you said. It said you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors. That's that grindstone, that's the wheel. That's the. Whatever your metaphor might be, we're redeemed from sin. But we're also redeemed from that empty way of life of trying to earn our own salvation, trying to earn our sanctification, trying to earn greater blessing by the things we do. That's empty. I think all three of us can testify to that, because we lived under that form of Christian religion for many years before we were free at last. Free at last. [00:12:19] Speaker A: I'll never be Scofield or anybody like that, but that was my attempt, probably poorly, to interpret that passage for you. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Mark. [00:12:26] Speaker A: I didn't feel you. I didn't feel like you had everybody on the hook with that one. [00:12:30] Speaker B: No, it was perfect. It was perfect. Empty way. That is an empty way of life. And unfortunately, too many believers live in that empty way of life and they've been redeemed from it, but they don't realize it. Yeah, they stay there. [00:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah, totally, Tim and Mark. And to drive home the point, you know, what redemption is all about, I normally don't use illustrations, but I think in this instance it is perfect. So, you know, in India, I'm going to do it quickly. In India, we had a system until the 1970s, I think, something called bonded labor. So the way it works is we used to have those landlords, like, who own a lot of lands, and they had laborers working for them. And then these poor and laborers, when they're needy, they would go ask. They would basically take debt from the landlords. And then the landlord would say, you know, they didn't have anything to. As a collateral, right? So they say, hey, you know, until you pay the debt back, you need to be my bond labor, right? So you need to work for me as a bonded labor. And what would happen is, once the laborer joins or starts working, they would put interest on the initial principal, and they would also put compound interest over time. Interest over interest over interest. And then this poor laborer, right, you know, he's just working for the landlord and the payer, whatever he gets is not enough. The interest and the principal is going at a much higher rate than the landlord, than the laborer can pay back. So what would happen is even by the end of their life, he would not be able to pay back the laborer. And then the money, the debt he owed is so much, he would just die without paying. And then the landlord would go and get their children, right? The same thing would happen with. Normally their eldest son would become a bonded laborer, and then they would labor all their life and die without paying the price. So it goes on and on and on, and their Whole, not only the Father, the original Father, but all their generation, all their children have become the slaves of this landlord. And the only way that they could be delivered out of this slavery is if someone, a rich man, outside, like from outside, came and paid the whole price. Only that is the only way that they would be set free. And that's exactly what happened at redemption. The definition of redemption is, like you said, Mark, setting someone free by paying a price. And the Bible says that, you know, I'm not going to go into all the Scriptures, but you know, the Bible clearly says that in Romans 6:17. But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to you. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. So what we were was slaves of sin. And Lord Jesus Christ paid the price to redeem us, to set us free from sin. The other term that Bible also uses is ransom. Lord Jesus Christ, right, he came to lay down his life as a ransom for many. You know, again, the idea of ransom is, we all know, right? Most people think of redeeming as coupons, but many people know what ransom is. If someone kidnapped you, someone took captive, then you pay the price as a ransom. So the idea of redemption is sin took us captive. And the reason why sin took us captive is Adam sold himself to sin and Jesus paid the price to deliver us from sin. So that is the idea of redemption. So when we really understand redemption, what we know is we are made free from sin and sin has no claim on us. That's the idea of redemption. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Ajay, you used a term I love. You said that Jesus paid the whole price. Scripture tells us that Christ died once for all, all time, all people, all sin. And what I love about it is it's the whole price. He didn't just pay for sin up until our moment of salvation, and now we have to start paying after that, paying him back or paying to maintain it. He's paid the whole price, past, present and future. And in fact, he's taking us out from under the system that held us captive in the first place. And that's our sin nature from original sin, from being unable to keep the law. And I just love that saying, the whole price. There's nothing left for us to add. And the Apostle Paul in Galatians said, if you do try to add, you're perverting the gospel, you've fallen away from grace, you've alienated Christ and he's become of little effect to you. And I don't know about you, I don't want that. I'm thankful he paid the whole price and taken me out from under the system that made me a slave in the first place. [00:18:10] Speaker A: So this might be a slight left curve, but First Corinthians has a couple of verses in it that I like to refer to when it comes to redemption, and it is 2nd Corinthians 6:20. For you are bought with a price, therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. [00:18:31] Speaker B: He bought us. [00:18:32] Speaker A: We're His. He owns us, so to speak now. So everything we do, we do now in his name and with his help. And just to finish the other verses in chapter 7, verse 23 of the same book, you are bought with a price. Be not ye servants of men, you know, don't serve the world. Don't, you know, serve God, not the world. And I will tell you that those are pretty clear pictures of, like, we've been saying. We've used a couple of words, I think now with redemption, there's ransom, purchase, ownership, transfer, and. And liberation imagery that are all combined into this one word, redemption. And I just wanted to bring those up before we got past them. [00:19:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with you, Tim. And I also wanted to say, though, it's not like, you know, we were slaves of sin and now we are slaves of God because, you know, God is not a slave master. You know, in fact, I remember a story again about redemption. Normally, I don't use analogies, but this is, I think, is a really good illustration. You know, there was this slave, right? You know, owned by a slave master. And he was. In those days, I believe, you know, they actually put up for sale. You know, you go to the slave market and you can actually, you know, whatever is it, right? You can bid for a slave and you can purchase a slave and take them home. And it so happened, right? You know, there was this small kid who was a slave, and he was put up for sale, and they slip, and it was a pretty high price, right? You know, people are keep on bidding. The bid goes higher and higher and higher. And then this one man comes, like, comes and then he bids the highest. And then. And then he purchases a slave, right? And then the slave goes to him, and then he says, yeah, you know, he was kind of sad that, oh, yeah, you know, I'm going from one slave master to the next slave master. And then he's like, okay, now I need to follow you because you purchased me. But you know what? That the person who bought said, hey, you know, I purchased you to set you free. You can go home. And then the kid says, I have no place to go. You know, you are the one that has been so generous to me and I'm going to go with you. So that is the attitude. We serve God. And in fact, you know, if we look at the Bible right, we don't go from slave to another slave. We don't go from slave of sin to slave of God. We actually go from slave of sin to the sons of God. You know, now we actually as sons of God, we are just naturally, we are doing what the sons of God do. You know, the other thing is, you know, when you are not serving sin, what else you do, you are living free. And the only option is by default you are doing the things of God, you are serving God and you're being the child of God, you're being the king and the priest. We are called to do so. The main idea of redemption, you know, when we understand redemption because we are purchased from sin, sin doesn't own us or have a claim on us. The realization we come to is, hey, I don't have to serve sin anymore because sin doesn't own me. I'm not obligated. You know, when you are not serving sin by default, you are serving God. You know, we can call it as serving God, but what we are is we are being the children of the Most High, living our freedom. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Basically, as I listen to the two of you talking, I keep hearing from, to, from, to. So we are redeemed from something. Multiple things we've talked about here. We've been redeemed from our sin, from the empty way of life we had before we were saved. So it's from something to something. And Ajay just went into the two. I wanted to read something that the Apostle Paul said about what we've been redeemed from and what we've been redeemed to. And he said that we were in this is before we came to Christ. We were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world. And if you read the context, he's talking about the law, rules and regulations, the dead works us trying to do it and earn and deserve and merit. He calls that the elemental spiritual forces of the world. So that's what we've been redeemed from. He says, but when the set time had fully come, God sent his son born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law that we might receive adoption to sonship because you are his sons. God sent the spirit of his son into our heart. The spirit who calls out abba, Father. So you are no longer a slave, but God's child. And since you are his child, God has made you also an heir. So we've been redeemed from slavery first slavery to the law which made us. We were also slave to sin. Then we become God's child, and we've been redeemed to an heir. We inherit the riches of his glorious inheritance. For those who believe. [00:24:00] Speaker C: Amen. Amen. Can you read the last part again? [00:24:04] Speaker B: The last. [00:24:04] Speaker C: Very long last. That is so awesome. Yeah. So you were no longer slaves, and then. Yeah. [00:24:09] Speaker B: So you were no longer a slave, but God's child. And since you are his child, God has made you also an heir. [00:24:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You know, our. Yeah, you know, I know. Like, now you can give your inheritance to whoever. Like, in general, if you want to, you can. But traditionally, you know, speaking, like, if you are a son, you're also an heir, Right? If you are a son, you get all the inheritance. So just think about it, like, what an amazing, amazing transition. Like, you go from slave of sin to son of God, and then you get all the inheritance. That means, you know, whatever belongs to Lord Jesus Christ is mine now, and we live in that freedom. Going from slaves of sin to sons of God, that is a transition. Yeah. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Quite a distance. Qualitatively and quantitatively, I'm an oversimplifier. [00:25:08] Speaker A: So I can already tell you what I'm taking away from this, this episode, this week, and that is we're redeemed out of slavery. Not back into slavery, but now into the family, into the freedom. It's all that. Some. It's a. That's a great line. Like I said, I like to oversimplify things. If I can fit it on a bumper, it'll probably stick in my head. [00:25:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:29] Speaker B: Well, go ahead, rj. [00:25:31] Speaker C: No, I was going to say we have this same analogy in the parable of lost son, right? He sold himself to somebody. He goes to a far country, and he actually literally becomes a slave. And he couldn't even eat pig's food. Then he comes back to the family. Right. You know, that's the picture, Tim. You were saying you were slave to something, but you come back to the family to become the child of God. And look at what the father did, right? He said, let us celebrate. Right? He was once lost, now he is found. There is celebration and there is joy. And he came back to the Father's house. And in fact, the older son was having a slave mentality, right? Oh, I did so much for you. You didn't give me anything. I work for you. He has this works mentality, the older son, but the younger son is like, he was kind of a brat, but even when he came home, his mindset is to celebrate. Okay, let's celebrate. You know, that's what it is. You know, we come home, there is rejoicing in heaven when one sinner is saved, you know, it doesn't mean that, you know, we are not going to do the work of the Lord, right? You know, we are sitting here doing the gospel on our own, right? No one told me. No one is telling us or forcing us to share the good news of Lord Jesus Christ. But we do that anyways because we know what we have become in the Lord Jesus Christ. And it's our second nature because we have become the sons of God. By sharing the gospel. We want to bring home many more people. We want to make many more become the children of God. You know, that's our passion. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Well, just. Just to beat this analogy all the way to death. The think of the old. The older son who stayed. Now that the younger son had taken his share, absolutely everything that left was the older sons. And you know, while he didn't do it with the right reason and the right motive, he continued to work because even though it was all his, he still felt, you know, he. He not an obligation. He loved his dad. He loved the fact that this was all his. And he worked to keep it all and to keep it all going and all that. You know, it's once you. Once you've been given everything, you still got to do something. You know, it's not. But it's not because you're going to earn anything. You already own everything. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Tim, I've got to pick a knit with you. I'm sorry, but nothing new, Mark. Well, you're the king nitpicker. So there's just a little payback. So you use the saying, we're not beating the subject to death, we're beating this subject to life. Ah, how about that? You like that, huh? Yeah, that will be available on T shirts next week. So let me. Let me read a quick scripture here and get your input on this, guys. So Galatians 3:13. Paul says Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written. Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole. He redeemed us in order that the blessing, blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. And this is another one of those two things here. He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles. That's us believers that aren't Jewish. And what I love about that. And let me get your input on this, guys, because I've always heard it taught when they talk about the blessing of Abraham. And one of the blessings he received was that God said, I'm going to give you a son. He gave him Isaac, and your offspring will become like the stars in the heaven. You know, you can't. But that's not the blessing that I think of, Ajay. And maybe not you either. I don't know about Tim. The blessing given to Abraham for me was God credited righteousness to him because of his faith. And then Paul says it here at the end again, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. So the Spirit of God gave Abraham all those promises, but the main blessing was that he credited his faith as righteousness. And that's what we have now. I love in Romans 1, where Paul says, and the righteous will live by faith. Faith from first to last. So beautiful. And that is the blessing of Abraham. And that's what we have been redeemed to. A life of faith, not of works. [00:30:08] Speaker C: Yeah. So Mark, you know, you're 100% right. And you don't have to go too far to prove it from scriptures, you know, that's why we say, you know, when you're reading something, guys, read the whole passage, right? I'm not telling to you in General. So Galatians 3, chapter 8. Sorry, Galatians 3, 8. In the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, in you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. It is clear there, right? God foreseeing that Scriptures foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith. Foreseeing that he said, in you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. So the blessing of Abraham is justification by faith. And that's exactly what you said, right? He credited righteousness when he believed. It's right there in verse eight. [00:31:09] Speaker B: And what was the faith that Abraham showed? I love what this answer is. What did he do to show God he had faith in him? [00:31:20] Speaker A: Are we talking about his nearly sacrificing his son? [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yes. Isn't that just so perfect and just so foreshadowing that you Were willing to sacrifice your own son because of your faith in me. Stop. I would, I will provide the sacrifice. [00:31:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I would agree the, with the saying that, you know, it is a foreshadowing of our Lord Jesus Christ. Right. And God will provide. But at the same time, you know, Abraham was not justified by sacrificing his son. It happened in Genesis 22. But Scripture says, you know, Abraham was justified in Genesis chapter 15. God took him out and he said, you know, look at all the stars of the heaven. Right. And your seed will be like that. Right? Your seed will be like stars of the heaven. If you count them, it will be like that. Basically, Lord is saying that you can't count the stars of the heaven. That's how your seed will be. And it is actually directly talking about Lord Jesus Christ. Right. Unless a seed dies, it cannot, it says like it cannot multiply. Right. In John chapter, I think in the book of John. I'm not fully remembering the verse, but it's basically, you know, when Lord Jesus, when God told Abraham, hey, your seed will be like the stars of the sky, he is basically pointing to Lord Jesus Christ. So I don't know whether Abraham understood or not, but the Bible says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. He really didn't have. [00:32:59] Speaker B: I'm not saying that's the only faith. Abraham was a man of faith from what you're talking about to this right here. And, and, and it said, and Paul tells us that Abraham had faith that God could raise even the dead. [00:33:16] Speaker C: Yep, Yep. [00:33:17] Speaker B: When, you know, he, he just reasoned, well, wait a minute. God made a promise to me that through this boy, he will make my offspring like the stars in heaven. And he had faith to believe that God can raise the dead. And I'm just saying what a beautiful foreshadowing because God stopped him, provided his own son and Abraham was white, right. He could raise the dead, he raised Christ. It's just like a perfect cycle being foreshadowed. [00:33:47] Speaker C: Yeah. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up, Mark. You know, the reason Abraham was able to offer Isaac is because of the faith. You know, even if he died, he was able to raise him up because God promised that in Isaac shall be thy seed. But lot of people take this and make it a condition, right. You know, like there is even a preaching that says, what is your Isaac? Right. Abraham gave up his son. Now what are you going to give up? You basically, you know, what is your Isaac? You know, my Isaac is my job. You know, I'M going to give up. My Isaac is my car. I'm going to give up. You know, so they make it some kind of a conditional thing, totally nullifying the gospel. Right. Oh, Abraham gave up this much, you know, what are you going to give up? And until you do that, you're really not justified. Abraham proved that he is justified by offering his son. And what are you going to do? So the point I was making is Abraham was justified simply by believing. And the offer of Isaac was just a product of faith again because he believed that even God promised. And even if I offer up my son, God is going to raise him up. It's not my problem. It's God's problem. [00:35:08] Speaker B: And it was not the offering of his son that was the reason God credited righteousness. It was his faith in God. And he believed two things. He had faith that God had the power to raise even the dead, but he also had faith in God's character, who he was, that he was faithful to fulfill his promises. [00:35:33] Speaker C: Yep. [00:35:35] Speaker A: I question this about the story. Nothing you guys have said is wrong in my mind. I'm not trying to question you guys, but in the story, most people look at Abraham and Isaac as Abraham kind of the. A God figure, and, and Isaac as being a kind of a Jesus figure because he was going to, you know, his son, he was giving his only son. When I look at that story, though, I see the ram as the Jesus figure. [00:35:59] Speaker B: He. [00:36:00] Speaker A: He's the one that ended up paying the price and getting sacrificed and covering Isaac. You know, I mean, am I completely off base? [00:36:08] Speaker B: Well, it says God provided the ram. You know, I wouldn't go too far in trying to figure out which role each person was playing, you know. [00:36:18] Speaker A: Oh, you take away all my fun. [00:36:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:36:20] Speaker B: And the sticks they used to burn the ram were wood that would signify the cross. I mean, we don't have to go that deep. [00:36:28] Speaker C: No, no, there is a. [00:36:30] Speaker B: It's a great foreshadowing, though. And you're right, the point was that God provided the lamb. [00:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that is true, Tim. You know, the ram is the picture of Lord Jesus Christ, but, you know, in types and shadows, the same thing is applied for multiple things. And Isaac, even though he did not die, you know, he went to the altar, so to speak. Right. And then he came back alive. So it is also a picture of resurrection. But here the whole thing is, you know, God providing the sacrifice and Isaac coming back is a picture of resurrection. I think it is in the Bibles, in one of the verses, you know, I Can pull it up later. But there are multiple types and shadows in the Old Testament and they all basically point to the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. [00:37:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Next thought. Ajay? [00:37:28] Speaker C: Well, I think there is a lot more, but yeah, you know, I think I just wanted to again re emphasize what redemption means to us, right? I think if we really understand what redemption is, before we were slaves of sin and now we are purchased from slavery. So that means sin has no authority over us, Sin has no claim over us. When we really understand that, right, you know, we slowly but surely come to realize that, hey, you know, sin, I don't have to obey sin. You know, when I have those raising within me or whatever the temptations, thoughts, whatnot. Before our default was, I don't have a choice. Oh, I'm going to go and, oh, now this is again, this temptation is again, I can't do anything about it. Oh, I'm going to do it, right? I'm going to give in. I'm going to succumb to that. That's because we didn't understand that sin has no power over us. But now when we understand redemption, Jesus paid the price and sin has no claim on us, then we realize that, hey, you know, I don't have to, you know, the temptation may come and this rising of whatever within comes, right? You know, the old sinful habits come, but we slowly but surely realize that, hey, you know, this thing has no power over me. This thing has no authority over me, so I don't have to submit to that. Even, you know, it seems like even in us, right? When the proclamation of emancipation happened, lot of people didn't know about that. You know, they were still serving their old slave masters. And until everybody knew about it, they really didn't get out of slavery. And I believe, you know, for generations, you know, they didn't believe that. You know, the current generation, you know, they may, they may understand that, okay, you know, we are free, but you know, they might still by default, right? Because they were used to slavery so much, they might still be afraid. You know, if their slave master comes and tells them something, they might just go and do it even though they are free. That's what we do, right? You know, we might have the knowledge that we are not slaves to sin anymore, but by default. Oh yeah, you know, I have a desire to do something. By default, I go and do it. But over a period of time, I think we'll come to the knowledge that, hey, you know, Jesus paid the redemption price. I'm not a slave of sin anymore. The thing is, I don't have to obey. And if I don't obey, nothing is going to happen. Sin is not going to come and get me. So over a period of time, I believe that, you know, understanding redemption correctly, it will cause us to live more and more in freedom, because that's what we are. We are free men of God. We are not slaves of sin anymore. [00:40:29] Speaker B: You know, Ajay, if I could just do a quick comment to finish up. This will be my summary is that Paul told us that the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. And we are no longer under law, but under grace. And Paul told us again, too, that it's the law that inflames us. It's the law that arouses the sinful passions in us. Now, that's a little counterintuitive to think that, but there is great power and freedom in realizing that when I sin, it no longer separates me from God. It's no longer a death sentence. The sting of death has been removed. And when you know that and really receive it and soak it in, the sin will melt away effortlessly, really. But it takes us keeping our eyes on Christ, remaining in him. And really, Ajay brought this up last week in a text. He talked about how we really, really need to keep telling, reminding ourselves of the gospel. And Martin Luther said that all believers need to preach the gospel to themselves every day because it's as we meditate and realize, and I love the word realize, as we make real those things in our lives so that they manifest themselves, that we're no longer under that law. It no longer has that power to kill us. It gives us a new kind of power to walk in freedom. And that sin loses a lot of its power. Yeah, we're still going to stumble, but you know what? That's been dealt with. God has chosen to remember our sins no more. And the one I really love is one of Ajay's key phrases, that he is counting our sins against us. No more. There's no longer any tally. He's forgotten any sin we've ever done, and he's no longer counting them to even have to forget them again. So there's great power in that realization. And that's why it's so important for believers not just to read Scripture, but to meditate on it, to reflect on it, to consider the ramifications and the great power that's in. In the truth. [00:42:49] Speaker A: Amen. I'm gonna. I'm gonna throw my wrap back in here too. So whoever closes this out can, if we may, be done at this point. But I'm gonna start back at the beginning. When I was coming up in the church as a youngin in. In the back in the days, I would get off my dinosaur and go to Sunday school. And redemption really meant that Jesus died to forgive our sins so that we could probably go to heaven. Because once we, you know, were forgiven, then we had to make sure we didn't add to the back to the list or we had to earn our spot more by doing these other things. I think what we found today by going through this is redemption was we were bought out of a system that says we have to do anything because there's nothing, nothing we can do to add to what Christ did for us. And what we got from him is perfect and we need to live in it and, you know, keep believing. And it's not just about being bought out of sin. It's being brought into a family and things like that. So it's a good. It's a good topic, guys. [00:43:58] Speaker C: Amen. Amen. Yeah. So, yeah, Mark, I'm so glad that you said. Brought that up. Right? So we don't have to sin because we are redeemed from sin and the law. And if you sin, there is no condemnation. You know, the other side of the things, right? You know, when we sin, we don't beat ourselves up, but we realize that, you know, there is no condemnation. We are not under the law anymore. Like you said, Mark, only when realizing our freedom from the law. That's when we actually truly start living in victory. Because the more we condemn ourselves, the more we go back into the same patterns and behavior. So it is, again, counterintuitive. But the more we stop beating ourselves up, the more free we are and the more we tend to not do whatever we did. So I just want to end with this scripture, the one that I read before, Romans 6, 17 and 18. But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. So I just wanted to, you know, draw our attention to this one thing, right? Let's say, you know, there is a slave master, right? And he had a slave. And then another guy pays the price and purchases that slave from the first slave master. And after the purchase is being. After the purchase is done, let's say the slave still wants to go and serve his old slave master. Will the new slave master Allow it. No. Right. The new slave master will be like, hey, you know, he's mine now. I'm not going to let you serve your old slave master. You know, that's what happened here. So we were slaves of sin, but now we have become the slaves of righteousness. So the comfort we have is like, even if you have the tendency to go and serve our old slave master now, righteousness will not let us do that. And the other thing is, even when we sin, you know, when we were slaves of sin, no matter what we did, we were sinners. Now we are slaves of righteousness. And no matter what we do, we are still righteous. So rest in our righteousness and the rest will be taken. Care. Thank you, Lord. [00:46:38] Speaker A: So I guess we can call it for the night, guys. [00:46:40] Speaker B: We can. [00:46:41] Speaker A: All right, well, in that case, everybody, thanks so much for coming and listening tonight. I don't know if you guys get as much out of this as we do, but I sure pray you do because we go through some of these and these discussions are really fulfilling and lift uplifting to us as we go through them. But with that, I'm going to say I hope you're going to join us again the next time. Thanks for listening today. We hope you were encouraged and uplifted. If so, we encourage you to subscribe and share our podcast with your friends and family. You can listen and subscribe on most popular podcast apps. Well, that's it for us today. As always, God bless and we will talk to you the next time.